Curse

Enon · Jun 09, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Does this mean no more Sim City? I mean, nuking cities with tornadoes and meteors is pretty violent, right?

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 09, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I hardly think it will happen. Germany is hard on violent video games, but actually going through with a complete ban would probably not happen even if the ministers wants it. First of all they have a reputation to think about. Banning those video games would be a huge kick in the balls for a great part of the german population, including potential voters, + it also means a crack in the liberal ways of modern germany. Besides it's a huge market so certain economic factors would probably also make it a very bad idea.

MrTickle · Jun 09, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart

...because parents aren't doing their damn jobs. ....

I do my job very well thank you very much

What doesn't help is all these do-gooder people who try to butt into your life telling you how to raise your kids! taking all the powers away from them so they can do jack.... And i'm not condoning violence either... but a smack on my bum was enough to deter me from displeasing my parents. I personally take away privileges for a while which works a treat

Although it is true that SOME parents don't give a shit and let their kids run riot & beat up defenceless old people in their own homes! don't lump me(or other good parents that frequent this forums) in with them... OK?

NoXiFy · Jun 09, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I'd love to see Germany banned. That way, American guilds will once again dominate the Guild Ladder

4thVariety · Jun 09, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Funny story about primates I heard on PNR.

Young primates will often try to get new food sources and train how to use them amongst each other. But even if a group of apes finds an abundant new food source to eat, the group members beyond a certain age will refuse to eat from that new source. Scientists believe that this is an evolutionary result and the older apes refuse in order to ward the group from long term negative effects. If the new food turns out to be poison after all, the group will survive due to only the youngest members adapting to the trend and dying. If the food checks out, the group will convert, but it will take the older apes to die off in order to reach 100% acceptance.

Now what do all these things have in common?

Books -> Pictures -> Movies -> Radio -> Comics -> TV -> Rock -> Metal -> Video Games -> The Internet -> ???

Right, they were all deemed the work of Satan at one point and each of these things was "corrupting" the youth at some point. Which goes to show us two things:
(1) We're just like a bunch of apes
(2) Of course the older apes will exploit that when it comes to public votes.

If you though you were safe living in the U.S. instead of Germany, then read this. D.C. at its best; yes the guy suggesting a ban on Pizza slices IS wearing a funny bow tie at all times. I say, order in while you can. His immigrant story will have you rotflol.

makosi · Jun 09, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoXiFy

I'd love to see Germany banned. That way, American guilds will once again dominate the Guild Ladder

And maybe we can start UWSC from ToA AD1 with people who actually speak English. Knowing the words "fail" and "noob" don't qualify one as an English speaker.

NoXiFy · Jun 09, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

And maybe we can start UWSC from ToA AD1 with people who actually speak English. Knowing the words "fail" and "noob" don't qualify one as an English speaker.

As racist as it may sound, I must agree that UWSC'ing with people who don't know any English outside of "noob" and "failer! pay cons!" is pretty annoying.

On a serious note, I doubt this will be passed and even if it is I don't believe it will be enforced. What are they gonna do, bust into your house; say HANDS UP, STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER and scan your C: drive for a violent game? It will most likely be like shooting fireworks in the US, many states have outlawed it but almost none enforce it.

wetwillyhip · Jun 10, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

wow i dunno if this is true and it's hard to believe, especially from some random news site. I'd need more solid proof around many sources that this is in effect. Even if it is true, they still have to get the bill through parliament.

Cale Roughstar · Jun 10, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Might be something to do with this.

But seriously... it is probably just the politicians blowing smoke again. A few times every year, some suit stands up and says he is going to find a way to protect us from the internet. It should blow over in a week, as German officials will be bombarded with e-mails and angry letters telling them what they can do with their policy. Besides, how does one actually enforce a policy like that without destroying a person's privacy? "Hello, we are from the police. We would like to scan your hard-drive to make sure that you don't have Crysis on there somewhere."

In addition, banning a large portion of an industry outright is a great way to kill jobs.

It is a stupid policy that will never make it through. You want to get re-elected? Don't kill jobs or piss off a large percentage of registered voters!

Too many politicians make the mistake of thinking that passing stupid laws somehow counts as "progress"...

Snow Bunny · Jun 10, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Time to get flamed I guess.

While it is a terrible way to rectify societal errors, and while it most likely is in response to the school shooting some time back, video games have nevertheless been tied persuasively (not conclusively) to certain accounts of violence, notably the notorious school shootings.

GTA has influenced a few (depending on your views, a few may be too many) acts of violence, with impressionable adolescents reenacting in real life what they'd done thousands of times.

You can argue that it's fine to portray violence as it really is, and I guess that it's amazing how close to real games are getting these days, but it also has the adverse effect of de-sensitizing violence. Rewarding players for brutality is pretty screwed up, if you think about it.

Yeah, yeah, there's a fine line between playing it and going out and doing the real thing, but when you play...I don't know, Medal of Honor Frontline (old game, I know) and you're storming up Normandy and going "wow this is awesome", few also think, "wait, this was a nightmare for tens of thousands of men, a site of horrific violence".

Banning games is going too far. I don't support censorship in any way shape or form, but you cannot deny that many games out there transmit sentiments to their impressionable audiences that aren't quite healthy.

Someone had to argue for the point.

glacialphoenix · Jun 10, 2009, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I don't think there's any denying that some people can take games too far, or that some sentiments aren't healthy.

On the other hand, it's a terrible logical leap to assume that videogames are, definitively, the one making things go wrong. That they're the ones responsible for all sorts of societal ills. I won't say that they aren't responsible for problems in all cases - it's entirely possible for someone to get addicted to videogames, for example - but assuming this applies to everyone is a terrible way to generalise. Assuming that banning videogames will solve the problem is an even bigger logical leap, and it's based on a bad generalisation to boot.

arcanemacabre · Jun 10, 2009, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

While it is a terrible way to rectify societal errors, and while it most likely is in response to the school shooting some time back, video games have nevertheless been tied persuasively (not conclusively) to certain accounts of violence, notably the notorious school shootings.

GTA has influenced a few (depending on your views, a few may be too many) acts of violence, with impressionable adolescents reenacting in real life what they'd done thousands of times.

I know you're just trying to help justify the decision, sorta, but as someone said earlier, correlation != causation. I don't think the issue is "impressionable adolescents," I think the issue goes much deeper (upbringing, natural tendencies, local environment, society as a whole, group mentality/peer pressure, "kids will be kids," etc). It may be the case that violent personalities seek violent video games and movies as an outlet, rather than as inspiration. They may already be inclined to acting out in such ways regardless of their chosen entertainment.

AKB48 · Jun 10, 2009, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Doubt this is true.....unless there is truly a correlation between "bad effects on society" and violent video games(there is a correlation, but its "r" value is less than 0.5) I doubt the German gov. will really ban the violent games, at least not while its economy is still in the water.

Gli · Jun 10, 2009, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Adolescent spree killers have one thing in common that bothers me much more: access to firearms, often through careless/uncaring/nut-job adults.

immortius · Jun 10, 2009, 08:48 AM // 08:48

The majority of spree killers had breast milk as babies.

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 10, 2009, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Time to get flamed I guess.

While it is a terrible way to rectify societal errors, and while it most likely is in response to the school shooting some time back, video games have nevertheless been tied persuasively (not conclusively) to certain accounts of violence, notably the notorious school shootings.

GTA has influenced a few (depending on your views, a few may be too many) acts of violence, with impressionable adolescents reenacting in real life what they'd done thousands of times.

You can argue that it's fine to portray violence as it really is, and I guess that it's amazing how close to real games are getting these days, but it also has the adverse effect of de-sensitizing violence. Rewarding players for brutality is pretty screwed up, if you think about it.

Yeah, yeah, there's a fine line between playing it and going out and doing the real thing, but when you play...I don't know, Medal of Honor Frontline (old game, I know) and you're storming up Normandy and going "wow this is awesome", few also think, "wait, this was a nightmare for tens of thousands of men, a site of horrific violence".

Banning games is going too far. I don't support censorship in any way shape or form, but you cannot deny that many games out there transmit sentiments to their impressionable audiences that aren't quite healthy.

Someone had to argue for the point.

I'm actually glad you argued for that point. Of course violent games creates more violence.

But the problem is: Violence is entertaining. When you watch movies, read books, play games and such it is in 75% of the cases the violence that is exciting. It is of course terrible to experience pain and even to see people who experience it, but even so people still watch in excitement.

That is pretty much a reason why banning the games is a bad idea. You're against it yourself so you know it is :P just want to make my point clear: If we can't see violence in movies, games, books and such then where will we get it? We will have to make our own violence. That is why banning the violent games will not work as a way to reduce violent behaviour, but on the contrary it will most likely create more. The forbidden is generally exciting.

Ebony Shadowheart · Jun 10, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTickle

I do my job very well thank you very much

What doesn't help is all these do-gooder people who try to butt into your life telling you how to raise your kids! taking all the powers away from them so they can do jack.... And i'm not condoning violence either... but a smack on my bum was enough to deter me from displeasing my parents. I personally take away privileges for a while which works a treat

Although it is true that SOME parents don't give a shit and let their kids run riot & beat up defenseless old people in their own homes! don't lump me(or other good parents that frequent this forums) in with them... OK?

I didn't say you specifically, now did I?

I too am a parent and I think I do a fine job of raising my son. I don't let him run wild, I have no issues swatting his azz when he'd done wrong, and yet at the same time he's not a mindless, obedient puppy either.

I'm not saying all parents are bad at being parents, but you have to admit that a lot of the issues we have today are because a good majority of them don't know how (or don't want) to be parents. I realize that there are still good parents out there, and those people know who they are. Many of them agree in the same line of thought (especially older parents) as me. I've noticed no one else has raised a ruckus about how I phrased that though....so, feeling guilty about something?

I agree, to a point, that people shouldn't butt in a tell you how to raise your children. In some cases if you just completely aren't doing your job, then yeah some authority should step in....but there is a large difference between disciplining you child vs neglecting or abusing your child. Parents should not be afraid to discipline their children, which is what I essentially said in my previous post. If people did, we wouldn't be having the issues we're having today....with the school shootings, etc.

As I have previously stated, and will expound upon, violence has been around forever. Guns have been around for a looooooooong time, and they used to be easier to get then they are today. However, there is much less discipline today, and we're honestly teaching our children less and less about respect. This is why we have as many issues in today's society as we do. Therefore the blame lies with the parents that aren't stepping up to the plate and doing their jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

video games have nevertheless been tied persuasively (not conclusively) to certain accounts of violence, notably the notorious school shootings.

GTA has influenced a few (depending on your views, a few may be too many) acts of violence, with impressionable adolescents reenacting in real life what they'd done thousands of times.

And it was argued persuasively that eggs were bad for you. High cholesterol and all....then we found out that hey, if you eat the whole damn egg it balances itself out.

It's argued that the sun causes cancer, but its how the human body naturally produces Vitamin D, which is healthier than ingesting it via other means.

The list goes on and on. We've been wrong before, we've blown things out of proportion before. People can spin facts any way they want to make their goal seem more appealing or plausible or to make their argument seem stronger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

you cannot deny that many games out there transmit sentiments to their impressionable audiences that aren't quite healthy.

Chocolate is a poison, ingest to much of it an you'll kill yourself. However, in moderation it's healthy because of the antioxidants in it.

Alcohol is also a poison, again ingest too much of it and you'll kill yourself. Again, in moderation, it's healthy. Good for the heart and the circulatory system.

Smoking is terrible, yet it's legal, and the ads are extremely impressionable on adolescents, but they are allowed.

Have you seen the affect of magazines like Cosmo and Metropolitan on young girls? Yet this is allowed.

The key here is everything in moderation. Even things that are healthy for you can have an adverse affect if not taken in moderation. Parents have to step in a set limits for their children. They have to teach their children the difference between reality and fantasy and they need to impress upon them how terrible real life violence really is. They need to teach their children about the responsibilities of their actions, and about respect for themselves as well as others. However, many of them aren't and that's where the real issue lies.

bungusmaximus · Jun 10, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Guys, We're talking germany here, one of the only western european countries that apply large-scale censorship on artists/video games and whatnot. Apart from the fact that Germany is a beautiful country, that particular point really sucks about it. Try to discuss WOII with an average (somewhat older) german, and you'll find put that subject is completely taboo.

The german government thinks problems dissappear when they're out of sight, which is rather naive imho.

I didnt read the entire thread, but, plz dont tell me they wanna ban GW? that would be crazy.

bungusmaximus · Jun 10, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Continuing ramblings: That school shooting a while ago got them worked up even more then they already were on the subject. Strong statement that 'spree killers play violent games', spree killing was there before computers were even invented, you gotta base games on SOMETHING rite?

Rather fix the rotten world itself then it's Symptoms, but lol, that would be a REALLY tough job, too tough for Homo Sapiens too handle.

Razon · Jun 10, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

The topic should be more like:

All violent games may be banned in Germany....
or: Germany wants to ban all violent videogames

...but they wont, considering how many hard-core videogamers there are at Germany.

And lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s#Saudi_Arabia